The Swiss judge who has quit the war crimes tribunal in Cambodia says there will be an internal investigation into judicial interference.
20 March 2012
ABC Radio Australia
Laurent Kasper-Ansermet announced his resignation after months of feuding with his Cambodian counterpart, You Bunleng.
While Case 1 has finished and Case 2 is underway, at the heart of this dispute are the controversial cases 3 and 4.
These two cases would see another five suspects considered by the tribunal but the Cambodian Government has stated it does not want the cases to go ahead.
Laurent Kasper-Ansermet says Judge You Benleng's active opposition to to investigations into Cases 3 and 4 has led to a dysfunctional system at the court, which is jointly run by Cambodian staff and UN-appointed international staff.
Presenter: Liam Cohrane
Speakers: Rupert Abbott, Amnesty International's representative in Cambodia.
ABBOTT: I would say that you referred to the dysfunctional situation he referred to in his resignation press release. It seems that he has just got to a bit of a deadend. He's been trying to investigate cases 3 and 4, but has had no cooperation from his national counterpart, and it seems that he's had enough and he's resigning in protest.
COCHRANE: Can you tell us more about the Cambodian judge, his counterpart You Benleng, what do we know about his background?
ABBOTT: He's been at the ECCC for a number of years and indeed investigated cases 1A and cases 2 with a different international co-investigating judge. And Judge You Benleng actually has a good reputation in the Cambodian domestic courts, and he was chosen for ECCC for that reason.
COCHRANE: Ok now the Swiss judge who yesterday announced his resignation, says he will finish up on the 4th of May. That still leaves some time. Can we expect further progress on cases 3 and 4 during that intervening period?
ABBOTT: Well it's very hard to know because I understand that the Swiss judge Laurent Kasper-Ansermet has been trying to build up his team in the office of the co-investigating judges. But of course the Cambodian staff in that office their contracts were not renewed recently, so it's quite hard to see what investigations that office is actually able to do, although by all accounts as he has said in his press statement announcing his resignation, he has been trying to do those. But obviously it's quite tough to do an investigation in Cambodia if you don't have many Cambodian staff working for you.
COCHRANE: Why were their contracts not renewed?
ABBOTT: Well that's not clear, but it seems that the view of the national co-investigating judge You Benleng was that perhaps no more work was required by that office, because of course along with the former international co-investigating judge, You Benleng has said that case 3 was over, the investigations had been completed while case 4 didn't seem to be moving forward at all. So one imagines that the contracts were not renewed because it was envisaged that no more work would be done by that office.
COCHRANE: So where do we go from here or from once the 4th of May date comes and their Swiss judge is no longer part of the tribunal, what happens next?
ABBOTT: Well of course what will be required is for this Swiss judge to be replaced, but that won't be enough, we've seen the Cambodian government oppose this individual's appointment to the extent that the Cambodian Supreme Council of Magistracy, which selects judges in Cambodia, has blocked the appointment even though it was nominated by the UN Secretary General. So Judge Kasper-Ansermet has never been actually recognised by his Cambodian colleague. And the Cambodian government has been very open about its opposition to the cases 3 and 4. So Amnesty International is really calling for United Nations to follow up what have in the past been very strong words with some action, and it has to set out what are the conditions for the United Nations to continue to back this court. And we would call for one of those conditions to be an end to political interference. And the United Nations has to go further and say what are the consequences if these conditions are not met. And we would hope that those countries funding the court would support the United nations.
COCHRANE: In terms of political interference, when you boil all of this down and it does get quite complicated with different sorts of judges, all kinds of technical internal rules and laws, but when you boil it down is it do you think a case that You Benleng, the Cambodian national judge is effectively doing the bidding of the Cambodian government in blocking progress on cases 3 and 4?
ABBOTT: I would say there is an appearance of that, yes, because the Cambodian government has been openly opposed to these cases, view statements such as foreigners can pack their bags and go home if they want these cases to move forward, and You Benleng certainly seems to, his decisions, his actions certainly seem to fit very well with the position of the royal government of Cambodia.
COCHRANE: I noticed in the statement released by Laurent Kasper-Ansermet he said that a full description of the situation will be published. Do you think we can expect to hear more juicy details about what's really going on behind the scenes at the tribunal?
ABBOTT: Yes we would hope so and I think it's important to remember the victims in all of this, they have a right to know about what has been going on. What have all of these developments been, why these cases are not moving forward, because hundreds of victims have applied to be civil parties, active parties in these cases. And they must be feeling utter despair. So hopefully this description will provide them with a bit more information as to what has happened.
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